Products

Solutions

Resources

Partners

Community

About

New Community Website

Ordinarily, you'd be at the right spot, but we've recently launched a brand new community website... For the community, by the community.

Yay... Take Me to the Community!

Welcome to the DNN Community Forums, your preferred source of online community support for all things related to DNN.
In order to participate you must be a registered DNNizen

HomeHomeDNN Open Source...DNN Open Source...Module ForumsModule ForumsStoreStoreNext releaseNext release
Previous
 
Next
New Post
5/17/2006 1:51 PM
 

I agree upon most of what has been written so far ...

In this thread: http://dotnetnuke.com/Community/ForumsDotNetNuke/tabid/795/forumid/114/threadid/34220/scope/posts/Default.aspx  Robert wrote on April 28th at 9.14 pm -  Robert wrote that it would be released within a couple of days !!! …

.... and I too are getting tired of the reply about getting a 800$ platinum benefactor and get a prerelease a couple of days before everybody else ... actually I would like to know how much money the benefactor-program has generated and specially how the money is being used. But maybe that as big a secret as when new releases are coming out .

I hope not that this benefactor program is step 1 and that step 2 would that the program goes into a more commercial line – and everything is going to cost, because if it is so … speak up now.

Sorry for the harsh tone but I am a little disappointed with the way things are working at the moment.

 
New Post
5/18/2006 12:55 AM
 

I have no problem with the benefactor program, I respect the need for open source projects to generate revenue.

What I really have a problem with is making people wait indefinately for a release. It simply leaves supporters unhappy - no matter what you say to temper the inevitable disappointment that is voiced.

"When is the next release?"

"When it is ready!"

...time passes.

"When is the next release?"

"When it is ready!"

"This sucks!".

Anyone who has been on the open source scene through at least a few releases will realise that this is a pattern that repeats itself over and over. Is the solution simply to ignore the people who decide to voice their concerns - I don't believe so. Is it so hard to set a date (x number of weeks after benefactors) and then add "unstable" or "beta" to the title/file if it is not consider a stable release?

These are just my thoughts, I'm not "trolling" or trying to start a "flame war" - I'm actually a little disappointed by that suggestion. I would like to support this project because I love DNN and would prefer to use a DNN Core Team supported store module, but it would be great if it was a little easier to stomach supporting it.

 
New Post
5/18/2006 1:50 AM
 

First lets clear up the Benefactor discussion. The number of benefactors who actually are in the 800 dollar ballpark is very slim. Second, the money from the benefactor program (ALL of it and then more) go into DNN development of the core. There is no secret behind that and Shaun has stated this several times. Now, hopefully you guys understand that roughly 95% of us in the core and on the project teams receive absolutely no money for any of our DNN development. Honestly, without the money from the benefactor program I don't see what is in 3.3/4.1 having been possible by years end.

Now lets cover open source and DotNetNuke. It is generally true that daily builds are available for OS projects but not all of them. I personally prefer the daily build scenario but I also understand why it is not happening and by no means am I protesting the way things are now. The number one reason is support and I know you guys are saying that is not a valid reason but how many posts are unanswered in the General forums? This is only public releases too, so imagine if there were daily builds the turmoil that would be those forums. I am not picking on anyone at all, but if people really want to be part of this, you could start by answering posts in the General forums. Again, not directed at anyone, but look at the number of posts I have vs. the person closest to me. Then look at the remainder of the top 10 list and you will see all project leads and/or core team members. Sometimes it is difficult to stomach conversations like this one simply because it appears to be we all want but we don't want to give back. I am only bringing this up because I hope you guys will see things from our perspective or at least consider it.

Core Module Projects:

I can tell you from the experience of running two that I am just spent. I don't know how else to say it besides that and please consider that I work 50-60 hours a week in office, finished one book and writing another, answer a decent number of forum posts almost daily, moderate these forums and asp.net, manage two module projects and still work on core code as well. (Lets throw some testing in there too). Of course I am compensated at my day job but how many DNN hours do you think I put in unpaid? (Not really looking for an answer)

Straight honesty in all of this is support from my project teams is getting better but not great, although I blame myself for this mostly. Each time I put anything near a date on things and fall off I get flamed in the forums so what am I supposed to do? **** happens and it stops me from meeting self imposed deadlines and no matter what the day job comes first. I don't release my mods to Benefactors any sooner than others but I am not knocking anyone who does because those in that program have ironed out tons of bugs already that would have been released otherwise.

To sum it all up, I definately understand where most of you are coming from and I think most of you guys really just want an idea of what is going on but the reality of it is people are motivated when they can pay their bills and thats what me and everyone else involved with these projects are trying to do.

 

 


Chris Paterra

Get direct answers to your questions in the Community Exchange.
 
New Post
5/18/2006 5:47 AM
 

Crispy,

I can only hope my personal position can shed some small amount of light on your situation through understanding what happens on the other side of the fence (my side, the technology consumer side). Why do we behave the way we do over here? How can you actually change this behaviour instead of just repeating the same plea for different behaviour over and over?

With respect to being more involved with support, I have in the past contributed ideas, code and assistance to others for stuff I've been working on myself (mostly DNN & CS SSO). But now I have come to the conclusion that it is best to use unmodified core developed code whenever possible rather than changing it (as most on this side of the fence have).

It is best for me not to modify the core's code in such a way that I produce a project fork because I will continue to benefit from future releases. It is best for the project team because I will continue to support(???) the project.

The problem is that beyond reporting bugs to the core following a release, and perhaps developing temporary workarounds for these bugs, it does not appear to be worthwhile  to do any substantial development (on this side of the fence).

Why? Because I have no idea whether changes I make will be compatible with the next release AND I have no idea when the next release will be. This means I could be wasting my time AND I could be wasting my time. What this does to me is create a situation where I have two choices: 1. Sit back and wait (and inevitably spend time trying to figure out when the next release will be) OR 2. Create a project fork and just get on with it by myself.

To clarify the point I'm trying to make. I would know whether my own development changes will be compatible with the next release if I could see the current code. I would know how to time my coding efforts if I new the release schedule - in fact this would become irrelevant with access to current or near current code. And the real point is I would be helping with the code (or at least trying).

 
New Post
5/18/2006 11:38 AM
 

Again, I do understand where you are coming from and believe it or not it is not much different for me. What I can offer you is that even if you were in my shoes knowing all that I know about DotNetNuke and when the next release is and what is changing you would find that it still doesn't matter. The truth is many proposed changes don't make it in for months. (I bugged the team about the membership provider API being useless for almost a year and nobody believed me for 6 months and here we are now releasing a version that is a true API) I have dnn projects at the day job all the time and have to determine which way to go with changes. To me you need to have more of an attitude of who cares. You are getting a great framework to start with and can minimize your changes because most things are really abstracted. Right now I think I am down to about 10 changes in the core that aren't in there that I have set aside for each dev base for a client and I go from there. I can relate to how I would rather not do these changes each time, but if you have a solid development process including source control system in place, this is not that difficult. As for modules sometimes I do buy a module from a third party and use it for a project. 90% of the time, however, I assume that I am going to adjust the module and make it my own in a sense (meaning no upgrade support). The greatest is getting a module that works and I can use future versions because I never touch it.

What all this really comes down to is nobody is here to meet anyone elses exact requirements and if you are a developer than you should be prepared to make some changes each time to earn your money.

 


Chris Paterra

Get direct answers to your questions in the Community Exchange.
 
Previous
 
Next
HomeHomeDNN Open Source...DNN Open Source...Module ForumsModule ForumsStoreStoreNext releaseNext release


These Forums are dedicated to discussion of DNN Platform and Evoq Solutions.

For the benefit of the community and to protect the integrity of the ecosystem, please observe the following posting guidelines:

  1. No Advertising. This includes promotion of commercial and non-commercial products or services which are not directly related to DNN.
  2. No vendor trolling / poaching. If someone posts about a vendor issue, allow the vendor or other customers to respond. Any post that looks like trolling / poaching will be removed.
  3. Discussion or promotion of DNN Platform product releases under a different brand name are strictly prohibited.
  4. No Flaming or Trolling.
  5. No Profanity, Racism, or Prejudice.
  6. Site Moderators have the final word on approving / removing a thread or post or comment.
  7. English language posting only, please.
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out
What is Liquid Content?
Find Out